Discussion:
PBS comparisons, rants, and more, I guess
(too old to reply)
tanadashoes
2008-08-12 18:07:20 UTC
Permalink
I used to like the Rocky Mountain PBS, but then they decided that they
would have pledge drives through every single really good episode they
show. I just stopped bothering, except for the rare shows (like the
Memorial Day Concert).

Smokie Darling (Annie)

(Quoted from the Sci-fi thread)
===================================

The North Carolina PBS stations here are not autonomous and all show the
same thing at the same time. Needless to say, the idiots in charge not only
have no sense of humor, but are showing the same old tired old junk over and
over again.

I got spoiled by a year in Lewiston, Idaho. We got two PBS stations on
cable, one from Spokane, Washington and the other from Moscow, Idaho. Each
had the same national programming and different independent programs. I got
addicted to one called "The Red Green Show" which was like a more brutal
version of home improvement meets Hee Haw. Paul Gross had a re-occurring
role on it, as I recall, and the re-occurring motto was "If you can't be
handsome, be handy." Mandy, my daughter wanted their "re-cycled tire" girls
bedroom as it was totally gross and awesome as well.

On the Spokane PBS station the full afternoon was how to shows culminating
with "the Red Green Show." The Moscow station had similar programs, but
were in different order and included one or two that were directed at home
crafts as well culminating in "The Red Green Show." Needless to say, my
Saturday viewing flipped between the two stations. The evenings included
different comedies than the usual PBS fare including one about a
restaurateur and anther about a couple trying to work their lives out with
lots of differences between them and major animosity from her side of the
family. I laughed myself silly on both of them. The Spokane PBS showed
their mystery shows on Saturday night and it was hard to choose between the
two stations. I got Mike addicted to "Red Dwarf" from the Moscow station.
I also introduced them to Monty Python and Dr Who from the Spokane station.
Moscow showed the "All Creatures Great and Small" series and we were glued
to the set.

Ok, I raised a couple of red necked intellectual snobs. They were well
rounded and carry on with my love for the ridiculous and fascination with
the classics of all kinds.

Cut to here. I've seen one Red Green show. It was shown during one of the
three annual sweeps months NC PBS has. It was the "Duct Tape Forever" movie
and garnered enough support that it was given an encore performance. I
really hoped that it would mean that Red Green had pierced the hides of the
wine and cheese snobs that run the shows here, but nope. We weren't that
lucky. Saturday afternoons include victory garden, an encore performance of
Antiques Road Show (great, it frees my Monday nights so that I can watch
"The Closer" and "Saving Grace" and not worry about missing them) Rick
Steve's Europe which never shows enough to get more than a taste of maybe I
want to go there, a couple of BBQ shows, Ask This Old House, Woodwrights
workshop, Norm's tool showcase, This Old House, and Carolina Outdoorsman.
We watch "Antiques Roadshow" then flip it over to whatever Rob finds
interesting (an eclectic mix to be polite) then, hopefully back to "Ask This
Old House" then on to whatever tickles Rob's fancy. We don't bother with
Saturday night programming as it is mostly the same old stuff they've been
showing over and over for at least eleven years that we know of.

NC's PBS station keeps going on and on about needing funding for new
programs that they tease us with and never buy, although they almost always
make their pledge goals with extra on the side. The few good shows that
we've seen are the national ones that usually are shown during the summer
and rarely at good hours. I suspect that most of the pledge money they get
goes to rent the shows for the next pledge drive in four months. Pledge
drives are held every December, March, and June. There may be a mini drive
or two in there, but I don't watch it. I used to donate to PBS, but don't
anymore because the money never seems to go to real quality programs.

Pam S. dyspeptic
Shel-hed
2008-08-12 19:45:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by tanadashoes
Each
had the same national programming and different independent programs. I got
addicted to one called "The Red Green Show" which was like a more brutal
version of home improvement meets Hee Haw.
Red Green is funny stuff. :-)
outsider
2008-08-12 20:35:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by tanadashoes
On the Spokane PBS station the full afternoon was how to shows
culminating with "the Red Green Show."
.
.
.
Post by tanadashoes
Pam S. dyspeptic
Always loved Red Green.
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
2008-08-12 20:34:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by tanadashoes
I used to like the Rocky Mountain PBS, but then they decided that they
would have pledge drives through every single really good episode they
show. I just stopped bothering, except for the rare shows (like the
Memorial Day Concert).
I stopped donating when they stopped showing regular "Live from the Met"
broadcasts, and most "special" music prgrams became ordinary popular
music stars. Although at least, in Southern California, when they did
show them, they were on the days and at the times the Metropolitan's
web-page announced them - and I had three PBS sources: the Los Angeles
Public Schools channel, LA's KCET, and the channel from Orange County.
Here in Phoenix, even when we get them, it's usually some inconvenient
time like ten AM on a Sunday morning (probably because they figure most
folk here in the "Bible Belt" will be in church, so it won't "interfere"
with anything that gets higher ratings).

Of course, our PBS here leaves a lot to be desired in its adult
programming, anyway. There are plenty of kid shows in the daytime, but
Saturday night (after Lawrence Welk at seven) we get two hours of
endlessly recycled episodes of "Keeping up Appearances", "As Time Goes
By", "Last of the Summer Wine" (which I hate) and "Waiting for God".
(In case we miss the latest reruns of them, they are all shown again at
various evening times during the week.) "Masterpiece Theater" and
"Mystery" seem to have merged into "Mystery Masterpiece", so we get one
or the other once a week - even some new (to the USA) episodes recently.
But for someone who remembers PBS stations as a source for the
"high-brow" cultural programming that no longer appears on the networks,
they hardly seems worthy of my financial support any more.
b***@sonic.net
2008-08-12 20:56:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)
But for someone who remembers PBS stations as a source for the
"high-brow" cultural programming that no longer appears on the networks,
they hardly seems worthy of my financial support any more.
On the other hand, I can still see shows on PBS that would never be
shown on the networks or commercial cable because they challenge the
status quo a bit too much. Example: last week I saw a program about
a commemorative statue in El Paso, Texas, depicting a little-known (at
least to me) conquistador named Otono. <--- (the "n" should have a
tilde over it, but my text-only email program doesn't support it).

Apparently Otono massacred hundreds of Indians (civillians, including
children), and was even brought up on charges for war crimes, and yet,
the artist who was commissioned to do the statue chose him for a subject.
One of your "what was he thinking?!" moments. Anyway, the documentary
interviewed the artist, several Indians who opposed the statue, and
people who supported the artist and the statue, so you got several
different points of view. I didn't think it was impartial, though - I
thought it made the statue-supporters look trivial and clueless. Or
maybe that was just me. :) I found it fascinating, incredibly annoying
at times (how dense some people can be about this stuff just floors me),
and very poignant.

I'm not very well educated about high-brow culture, so I don't
generally go looking for that on PBS, although I'll watch a ballet
or other dance or symphonic concert once in a while. But I'm glad
that they have shows like "POV" (Point of View) that allow people who
don't usually get a voice - certainly not on televison - to produce
and show very well-made programs about issues we don't get exposed
to on commercial TV.
--
Joyce ^..^

(To email me, remove the X's from my user name.)
Suz
2008-08-12 22:07:45 UTC
Permalink
�> But for someone who remembers PBS stations as a source for the
�> "high-brow" cultural programming that no longer appears on the networks,
�> they hardly seems worthy of my financial support any more.
On the other hand, I can still see shows on PBS that would never be
shown on the networks or commercial cable because they challenge the
status quo a bit too much. Example: last week I saw a program about
a commemorative statue in El Paso, Texas, depicting a little-known (at
least to me) conquistador named Otono. <--- (the "n" should have a
tilde over it, but my text-only email program doesn't support it).
Apparently Otono massacred hundreds of Indians (civillians, including
children), and was even brought up on charges for war crimes, and yet,
the artist who was commissioned to do the statue chose him for a subject.
One of your "what was he thinking?!" moments. Anyway, the documentary
interviewed the artist, several Indians who opposed the statue, and
people who supported the artist and the statue, so you got several
different points of view. I didn't think it was impartial, though - I
thought it made the statue-supporters look trivial and clueless. Or
maybe that was just me. :) I found it fascinating, incredibly annoying
at times (how dense some people can be about this stuff just floors me),
and very poignant.
I'm not very well educated about high-brow culture, so I don't
generally go looking for that on PBS, although I'll watch a ballet
or other dance or symphonic concert once in a while. But I'm glad
that they have shows like "POV" (Point of View) that allow people who
don't usually get a voice - certainly not on televison - to produce
and show very well-made programs about issues we don't get exposed
to on commercial TV.
--
Joyce � ^..^
(To email me, remove the X's from my user name.)
=============================================
I'm spoiled, I live in WGBHland where a lot of pbs programming
originates. I also get a New Hamshire station that shows some unique
programs. POV is a program I enjoy too Joyce. On Sat nights on GBH
there's a Brit Crime drama comedy, called New Tricks, about retired
cops who solve old unsolved cases. Unfortunately they no longer show
Red Green here.
Suz&Spicey
b***@sonic.net
2008-08-13 01:15:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Suz
I'm spoiled, I live in WGBHland where a lot of pbs programming
originates.
Ah, WGBHland, my old stomping grounds. :) I agree that GBH has a lot
of great programming, as does WNET. KQED (San Franciso) doesn't do too
badly for itself, either.

This topic could be extremely boring for folks across various ponds
or borders, but, heh, PBS is one of the ways we get their programs! :)
--
Joyce ^..^

(To email me, remove the X's from my user name.)
Charleen Welton
2008-08-13 11:32:52 UTC
Permalink
Ah, WGBH! We used to go sit in on some of the panel shows, what fun; wine
ALWAYS served! The garden for the garden show was planted in the parking
lot! Cool!
Charleen who misses New England
Post by b***@sonic.net
Post by Suz
I'm spoiled, I live in WGBHland where a lot of pbs programming
originates.
Ah, WGBHland, my old stomping grounds. :) I agree that GBH has a lot
of great programming, as does WNET. KQED (San Franciso) doesn't do too
badly for itself, either.
This topic could be extremely boring for folks across various ponds
or borders, but, heh, PBS is one of the ways we get their programs! :)
--
Joyce ^..^
(To email me, remove the X's from my user name.)
Kreisleriana
2008-08-12 22:41:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by tanadashoes
I used to like the Rocky Mountain PBS, but then they decided that they
would have pledge drives through every single really good episode they
show. I just stopped bothering, except for the rare shows (like the
Memorial Day Concert).
Smokie Darling (Annie)
(Quoted from the Sci-fi thread)
===================================
The North Carolina PBS stations here are not autonomous and all show the
same thing at the same time. Needless to say, the idiots in charge not
only have no sense of humor, but are showing the same old tired old junk
over and over again.
I got spoiled by a year in Lewiston, Idaho. We got two PBS stations on
cable, one from Spokane, Washington and the other from Moscow, Idaho.
Each had the same national programming and different independent programs.
I got addicted to one called "The Red Green Show" which was like a more
brutal version of home improvement meets Hee Haw. Paul Gross had a
re-occurring role on it, as I recall, and the re-occurring motto was "If
you can't be handsome, be handy." Mandy, my daughter wanted their
"re-cycled tire" girls bedroom as it was totally gross and awesome as
well.
On the Spokane PBS station the full afternoon was how to shows culminating
with "the Red Green Show." The Moscow station had similar programs, but
were in different order and included one or two that were directed at home
crafts as well culminating in "The Red Green Show." Needless to say, my
Saturday viewing flipped between the two stations. The evenings included
different comedies than the usual PBS fare including one about a
restaurateur and anther about a couple trying to work their lives out with
lots of differences between them and major animosity from her side of the
family. I laughed myself silly on both of them. The Spokane PBS showed
their mystery shows on Saturday night and it was hard to choose between
the two stations. I got Mike addicted to "Red Dwarf" from the Moscow
station. I also introduced them to Monty Python and Dr Who from the
Spokane station. Moscow showed the "All Creatures Great and Small" series
and we were glued to the set.
Ok, I raised a couple of red necked intellectual snobs. They were well
rounded and carry on with my love for the ridiculous and fascination with
the classics of all kinds.
Cut to here. I've seen one Red Green show. It was shown during one of
the three annual sweeps months NC PBS has. It was the "Duct Tape Forever"
movie and garnered enough support that it was given an encore performance.
I really hoped that it would mean that Red Green had pierced the hides of
the wine and cheese snobs that run the shows here, but nope. We weren't
that lucky. Saturday afternoons include victory garden, an encore
performance of Antiques Road Show (great, it frees my Monday nights so
that I can watch "The Closer" and "Saving Grace" and not worry about
missing them) Rick Steve's Europe which never shows enough to get more
than a taste of maybe I want to go there, a couple of BBQ shows, Ask This
Old House, Woodwrights workshop, Norm's tool showcase, This Old House, and
Carolina Outdoorsman. We watch "Antiques Roadshow" then flip it over to
whatever Rob finds interesting (an eclectic mix to be polite) then,
hopefully back to "Ask This Old House" then on to whatever tickles Rob's
fancy. We don't bother with Saturday night programming as it is mostly
the same old stuff they've been showing over and over for at least eleven
years that we know of.
NC's PBS station keeps going on and on about needing funding for new
programs that they tease us with and never buy, although they almost
always make their pledge goals with extra on the side. The few good shows
that we've seen are the national ones that usually are shown during the
summer and rarely at good hours. I suspect that most of the pledge money
they get goes to rent the shows for the next pledge drive in four months.
Pledge drives are held every December, March, and June. There may be a
mini drive or two in there, but I don't watch it. I used to donate to
PBS, but don't anymore because the money never seems to go to real quality
programs.
Pam S. dyspeptic
I hear ya. And I'm a PBS diehard. What I can't stand is this parade of
glorified infomercials my local PBS puts on again and again. Money
management, menopause, self-esteem, all crap from self-appointed gurus
selling something.
What really burns me is how they put on certain programming only during
pledge drives, and then they say "If you love (e.g.) movies about kangaroos,
you know that this is the only place you can see movies about kangaroos."
Well, right. But only during pledge drives. And then you interrupt them
every five minutes with pledge pitches.
--
Theresa, Stinky and Dante
drtmuirATearthlink.net

Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh
b***@sonic.net
2008-08-12 23:45:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kreisleriana
I hear ya. And I'm a PBS diehard. What I can't stand is this parade of
glorified infomercials my local PBS puts on again and again. Money
management, menopause, self-esteem, all crap from self-appointed gurus
selling something.
Ugh, Suze Orbach. Or Orman, or whatever her name is. Spare me!
Post by Kreisleriana
What really burns me is how they put on certain programming only during
pledge drives, and then they say "If you love (e.g.) movies about kangaroos,
you know that this is the only place you can see movies about kangaroos."
Well, right. But only during pledge drives. And then you interrupt them
every five minutes with pledge pitches.
You don't need PBS to see kangaroos. Animal Planet has kangaroos coming
out of your ears. OK, they're not movies, but I'm not that picky. :)

Actually, I've been turning to PBS more lately because it seems like
every channel is showing more and more annoying commercials, more
frequently and for longer periods. If I see one more "Vehix" commercial
I'm going to scream. (If you're outside the US, you will probably never
see that - consider yourself lucky.)

Sure, PBS has pledge drives, but I'm lucky - my cable provider gives
us 4 PBS stations to choose from. So while it's pretty much guarateed
that at least one of the 4 will have a pledge drive going on at any given
time, I can always find one or two that aren't. Besides, I think it's
sad that federal funding for PBS is so bad these days, that PBS is reduced
to constant shilling for money from the public, or else giving us *real*
commercials from their corporate sponsors. So while I won't actually
*watch* a pledge drive, I try not to hold it against them too much.

However, I'm with Pam on the musty old shows that have been around for
eons. Give 'em a rest already!

How about Austin City Limits, though - anyone like that? I think they
almost always have great music. It's good as background music for Saturday
night sewing projects.

One of my favorite programs in recent years was called Do You Speak
American? Robert MacNeil (of MacNeil/Lehrer fame) went all around the
USA to interview people and just talk to them about their regional,
ethnic, or subcultural dialects of the English language. I found him
to be very respectful and curious about everyone, including their
group's history, values, tastes and interests, as expressed in their
language. PBS is still worth it in my book because of shows like that
one.
--
Joyce ^..^

(To email me, remove the X's from my user name.)
Smokie Darling (Annie)
2008-08-13 13:24:18 UTC
Permalink
Pledge drives are held every December, March, and June.  There may be a
mini drive or two in there, but I don't watch it.  I used to donate to
PBS, but don't anymore because the money never seems to go to real quality
programs.
Pam S. dyspeptic
I hear ya.  And I'm a PBS diehard.  What I can't stand is this parade of
glorified infomercials my local PBS puts on again and again.  Money
management, menopause, self-esteem, all crap from self-appointed gurus
selling something.
What really burns me is how they put on certain programming only during
pledge drives, and then they say "If you love (e.g.) movies about kangaroos,
you know that this is the only place you can see movies about kangaroos."
Well, right.  But only during pledge drives.  And then you interrupt them
every five minutes with pledge pitches.
--
Theresa, Stinky and Dante
drtmuirATearthlink.net
Stinky Pictures:http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh
Exactly, that is why I gave up watching RMPBS hereabouts. It has just
become mostly boring, old programs that I've already seen. Or, heaven
help us, they say they are going to air "True West" that was made and
originally aired on PBS in the 80s. Cool, never saw that. Guess what
was on? Prime Suspect (3 I think). I'd seen the PS, I wanted to see
True West.

That's what we get here, someone writes (or calls the local cable
company) and says, "I hear there are some sexual themes in this show,
you can't show that, my children might see it" (I have a former friend
who does that, and she doesn't have children, but the local cable will
pull the show when she calls to complain that she's heard there are
'sexual themes').

I have written to the "head office" in Denver for PBS and complained,
but they say there is nothing they can do. I call and write the cable
company and am informed that "we don't have the capacity to edit what
is shown" (yeah, sure, that is why channels in Denver don't have sh*t
changed over to shoot, doesn't blur out the crack of the plumbers'
butt (on various 'fixit' channels) and doesn't digitize the breasts
off of nude women in PAINTINGS (on whatever channel they are shown)
for heaven's sake).

I just *love* living here, can you tell? Actually, that attitude is
the only real problem I have with living here.
b***@sonic.net
2008-08-13 20:52:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Smokie Darling (Annie)
I have written to the "head office" in Denver for PBS and complained,
but they say there is nothing they can do. I call and write the cable
company and am informed that "we don't have the capacity to edit what
is shown" (yeah, sure, that is why channels in Denver don't have sh*t
changed over to shoot, doesn't blur out the crack of the plumbers'
butt (on various 'fixit' channels) and doesn't digitize the breasts
off of nude women in PAINTINGS (on whatever channel they are shown)
for heaven's sake).
"...don't have sh*t changed over to shoot" - LOL, I thought this was
some sort of idiomatic expression I had never heard before. :) Took me
a while trying to figure out what it could mean before I realized it
had a much simpler meaning.
Post by Smokie Darling (Annie)
I just *love* living here, can you tell? Actually, that attitude is
the only real problem I have with living here.
Where's here? I don't remember where you live. I'm thinking somewhere
in the southern US, or south/midwest?
--
Joyce ^..^

(To email me, remove the X's from my user name.)
Smokie Darling (Annie)
2008-08-13 21:14:06 UTC
Permalink
 > I have written to the "head office" in Denver for PBS and complained,
 > but they say there is nothing they can do.  I call and write the cable
 > company and am informed that "we don't have the capacity to edit what
 > is shown" (yeah, sure, that is why channels in Denver don't have sh*t
 > changed over to shoot, doesn't blur out the crack of the plumbers'
 > butt (on various 'fixit' channels) and doesn't digitize the breasts
 > off of nude women in PAINTINGS (on whatever channel they are shown)
 > for heaven's sake).
"...don't have sh*t changed over to shoot" - LOL, I thought this was
some sort of idiomatic expression I had never heard before. :) Took me
a while trying to figure out what it could mean before I realized it
had a much simpler meaning.
There is nothing worse than watching a film, seeing a guy trying to
get away from a predator (on SciFi it's usually some sort of
monstrosity like a giant alligator or shark), and saying "shoot" over
and over. Got news for you, SciFi re-runs enough stuff, and I've seen
most of their films elsewhere, and "shoot" is *not* what that guy is
saying as he steers the boat to get away.

Although the digitizing out the breasts on the Venus on the half shell
(yeah, that isn't what it's called, but that's what I've always called
that painting) on History Channel, and doing the same on a painting in
a Poirot seems to be the worst. Didn't realize that a work by a
master (the Venus on the half shell) was considered inappropriate for
children, yet watching a person get torn limb from limb (in some piece
of crap film, usually on SciFi, lol) is perfectly acceptable.

Heck, there was a show on PBS (yes I do suffer through them
occasionally), where they had a tribe from the Amazon forest, and they
digitized the butts and the breasts. Since we have to be ashamed of
the human form, regardless. ARGH!

Sorry, off the high horse now.
 > I just *love* living here, can you tell?  Actually, that attitude is
 > the only real problem I have with living here.
Where's here? I don't remember where you live. I'm thinking somewhere
in the southern US, or south/midwest?
--
Joyce   ^..^
(To email me, remove the X's from my user name.)
Western Colorado, near Grand Junction (that's the biggest town on this
side of the Rockies, and easiest to find on a map). It seems that we
have become somewhat of a conservative town, but we have gay rights
<go figure>, one of the few places in Colorado to openly accept gay
and lesbian couples in most neighborhoods.
b***@sonic.net
2008-08-13 22:58:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Smokie Darling (Annie)
There is nothing worse than watching a film, seeing a guy trying
to get away from a predator (on SciFi it's usually some sort of
monstrosity like a giant alligator or shark), and saying "shoot"
over and over. Got news for you, SciFi re-runs enough stuff, and
I've seen most of their films elsewhere, and "shoot" is *not*
what that guy is saying as he steers the boat to get away.
LOL! :) Yeah, there is something incredibly lame about hearing a
Mafia guy on some gangster movie going, "Forget you!" 50 million
times. :)

I don't know - if you can stomach seeing someone cut someone else's
fingers off, surely you can manage to hear the F-word??
Post by Smokie Darling (Annie)
Heck, there was a show on PBS (yes I do suffer through them
occasionally), where they had a tribe from the Amazon forest, and
they digitized the butts and the breasts. Since we have to be
ashamed of the human form, regardless. ARGH!
Oh, give me a break. They didn't used to do that. The wacko fringe is
taking over the country. :-/
Post by Smokie Darling (Annie)
Post by b***@sonic.net
Where's here?
Western Colorado, near Grand Junction (that's the biggest town on
this side of the Rockies, and easiest to find on a map). It seems
that we have become somewhat of a conservative town, but we have
gay rights <go figure, one of the few places in Colorado to
openly accept gay and lesbian couples in most neighborhoods.
Oh wow, I didn't realize you lived so far west. I usually have a
sense of where people are located, but I guess I didn't catch yours
for some reason.

It seems like a lot of conservatives, with the exception of the
above-mentioned wacko fringe, have come to understand that gay
people really aren't a threat to society. Maybe it's because most
people at one time or another have met or been close to a gay person,
whether in the family, at the workplace, in church, or wherever. It's
harder to see someone as "one of Them" when it's your best friend or
your child.

I corresponded with a woman I met online who was very conservative in
some ways - staunchly anti-abortion and strongly in favor of the "War
on Terror" - yet she was horrified that anyone would harass a gay or
transgendered person just because of who they were. Maybe she was a
very conservative lesbian. Or maybe she, like many other people who
are otherwise conservative, has changed her mind about gay people, or
maybe she always had an open mind. Many conservatives did not, though.

It's interesting. Clearly, attitudes about sexual minorities have changed
enough that one's feelings about that issue doesn't necessarily indicate
one's all-around political beliefs. That certainly wasn't the case, not
too long ago!

--
Joyce ^..^

(To email me, remove the X's from my user name.)
Smokie Darling (Annie)
2008-08-13 23:41:24 UTC
Permalink
 > I've seen most of their films elsewhere, and "shoot" is *not*
 > what that guy is saying as he steers the boat to get away.
LOL! :) Yeah, there is something incredibly lame about hearing a
Mafia guy on some gangster movie going, "Forget you!" 50 million
times. :)
I don't know - if you can stomach seeing someone cut someone else's
fingers off, surely you can manage to hear the F-word??
Ahh, watch A&E do you? The Sopranos... Freakin', that's my
favorite.

What kills me about all of this is that it seems some people want
others to raise their children. I mean, my mother told us that
breasts were to feed babies (which they are), when we got older, she
told my sister and myself what other uses there were for them.
 > Heck, there was a show on PBS (yes I do suffer through them
 > occasionally), where they had a tribe from the Amazon forest, and
 > they digitized the butts and the breasts. Since we have to be
 > ashamed of the human form, regardless. ARGH!
Oh, give me a break. They didn't used to do that. The wacko fringe is
taking over the country. :-/
Apparently we are currently the lucky ones. I've complained to
various sources (PBS, TNT, A&E, etc), they all say they will look into
it, then nothing happens. My daughter has DISH network, and she and I
will 'cowatch' the same shows. It ain't edited on the upper channels
on DISH, just the cable.

No, I won't go with dish, sorry. I've never had any luck with them,
and cable are the only ones with broadband.
 >> Where's here?
 > Western Colorado, near Grand Junction (that's the biggest town on
Oh wow, I didn't realize you lived so far west. I usually have a
sense of where people are located, but I guess I didn't catch yours
for some reason.
Then you probably don't want to hear the I was born and raised in
Southern California ;-)? I probably sound "off" because I've lived in
California, Oregon, Alabama, Maine, Colorado, and places overseas.

Smokie Darling (Annie)
Kreisleriana
2008-08-14 17:30:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@sonic.net
Post by Smokie Darling (Annie)
There is nothing worse than watching a film, seeing a guy trying
to get away from a predator (on SciFi it's usually some sort of
monstrosity like a giant alligator or shark), and saying "shoot"
over and over. Got news for you, SciFi re-runs enough stuff, and
I've seen most of their films elsewhere, and "shoot" is *not*
what that guy is saying as he steers the boat to get away.
LOL! :) Yeah, there is something incredibly lame about hearing a
Mafia guy on some gangster movie going, "Forget you!" 50 million
times. :)
My all-time favorite dub: I was watching an old Burt Reynolds comedy, which
contained many instances of the word "f***ing." Each instance was changed
to "Viking"!! I laughed my ass off , but wondered if viewers of
Scandinavian descent would get insulted to hear their ancestors used as a
swear word. ;) It also caused me to remember this and snort every time
afterwards, when I hear anyone refer to Vikings. Like the Minnesota
Vikings, for example. Or "Give him a Viking funeral." ;)
--
Theresa, Stinky and Dante
drtmuirATearthlink.net

Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh
CatNipped
2008-08-14 21:15:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kreisleriana
Post by b***@sonic.net
Post by Smokie Darling (Annie)
There is nothing worse than watching a film, seeing a guy trying
to get away from a predator (on SciFi it's usually some sort of
monstrosity like a giant alligator or shark), and saying "shoot"
over and over. Got news for you, SciFi re-runs enough stuff, and
I've seen most of their films elsewhere, and "shoot" is *not*
what that guy is saying as he steers the boat to get away.
LOL! :) Yeah, there is something incredibly lame about hearing a
Mafia guy on some gangster movie going, "Forget you!" 50 million
times. :)
My all-time favorite dub: I was watching an old Burt Reynolds comedy,
which contained many instances of the word "f***ing." Each instance was
changed to "Viking"!! I laughed my ass off , but wondered if viewers of
Scandinavian descent would get insulted to hear their ancestors used as a
swear word. ;) It also caused me to remember this and snort every time
afterwards, when I hear anyone refer to Vikings. Like the Minnesota
Vikings, for example. Or "Give him a Viking funeral." ;)
LOL! I guess they thought the mouth movements for the two words were
similar! ;>

Nose Kisses,

CatNipped
Post by Kreisleriana
--
Theresa, Stinky and Dante
drtmuirATearthlink.net
Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh
b***@sonic.net
2008-08-14 23:14:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kreisleriana
My all-time favorite dub: I was watching an old Burt Reynolds comedy, which
contained many instances of the word "f***ing." Each instance was changed
to "Viking"!!
That's just bizarre. "Viking" isn't even the right part of speech. :) Not
to mention the total irrelevance factor.
--
Joyce ^..^

(To email me, remove the X's from my user name.)
hopitus
2008-08-15 00:32:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@sonic.net
Post by Kreisleriana
My all-time favorite dub: I was watching an old Burt Reynolds comedy, which
contained many instances of the word "f***ing." Each instance was changed
to "Viking"!!
That's just bizarre. "Viking" isn't even the right part of speech. :) Not
to mention the total irrelevance factor.
--
Joyce ^..^
(To email me, remove the X's from my user name.)
Watching the Olympics kind of puts "translater" right in your face,
over a long period of time, mouth movements, etc. and disbelief on
my part at the comprehension of some phrases into other tongues.
Re your funny voice dub, I'd guess the dubbing was outsourced to
some other country, who dubbed by what they read of the words,
not what they would have heard. Motto must be, "whatever works".
outsider
2008-08-15 15:06:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@sonic.net
Post by Kreisleriana
My all-time favorite dub: I was watching an old Burt Reynolds
comedy, which contained many instances of the word "f***ing." Each
instance was changed to "Viking"!!
That's just bizarre. "Viking" isn't even the right part of speech. :)
Not to mention the total irrelevance factor.
This makes me think of the worst show EVER on tv (IMO). That would be the
smurfs. A program which could single-handedly remove any child's
comprehesion of parts of speach. They would randomly replace words with
SMURF irregardless of part of speach (or sense). This might have been one
of the first of the current wave of children's programming aimed at the
_absolute_ _lowest_ common denominator. The logic being (I assume) -If
they think, they may not buy our product-
Adrian
2008-08-15 15:56:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by outsider
Post by b***@sonic.net
Post by Kreisleriana
My all-time favorite dub: I was watching an old Burt Reynolds
comedy, which contained many instances of the word "f***ing." Each
instance was changed to "Viking"!!
That's just bizarre. "Viking" isn't even the right part of speech. :)
Not to mention the total irrelevance factor.
This makes me think of the worst show EVER on tv (IMO). That would
be the smurfs. A program which could single-handedly remove any
child's comprehesion of parts of speach. They would randomly replace
words with SMURF irregardless of part of speach (or sense). This
might have been one of the first of the current wave of children's
programming aimed at the _absolute_ _lowest_ common denominator. The
logic being (I assume) -If they think, they may not buy our product-
If you strangle a Smurf, what colour does it go? ;-)
--
Adrian (Owned by Snoopy, Bagheera & Shadow)
Cats leave pawprints on your heart
http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk
outsider
2008-08-15 20:21:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adrian
Post by outsider
Post by b***@sonic.net
Post by Kreisleriana
My all-time favorite dub: I was watching an old Burt Reynolds
comedy, which contained many instances of the word "f***ing." Each
instance was changed to "Viking"!!
That's just bizarre. "Viking" isn't even the right part of speech. :)
Not to mention the total irrelevance factor.
This makes me think of the worst show EVER on tv (IMO). That would
be the smurfs. A program which could single-handedly remove any
child's comprehesion of parts of speach. They would randomly replace
words with SMURF irregardless of part of speach (or sense). This
might have been one of the first of the current wave of children's
programming aimed at the _absolute_ _lowest_ common denominator. The
logic being (I assume) -If they think, they may not buy our product-
If you strangle a Smurf, what colour does it go? ;-)
I don't know but would be more than willing to find out if I see a smurf!
Lesley via CatKB.com
2008-08-19 10:04:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adrian
Post by Kreisleriana
My all-time favorite dub: I was watching an old Burt Reynolds
comedy, which contained many instances of the word "f***ing." Each
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
Post by Adrian
If you strangle a Smurf, what colour does it go? ;-)
I don't know but would be more than willing to find out if I see a smurf!
Get in line or leave me the Teletubbies!

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous Furballs
--
Message posted via http://www.catkb.com
outsider
2008-08-19 22:11:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lesley via CatKB.com
Post by Adrian
Post by Kreisleriana
My all-time favorite dub: I was watching an old Burt Reynolds
comedy, which contained many instances of the word "f***ing." Each
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
Post by Adrian
If you strangle a Smurf, what colour does it go? ;-)
I don't know but would be more than willing to find out if I see a smurf!
Get in line or leave me the Teletubbies!
Lesley
Slave of the Fabulous Furballs
Deal!
tanadashoes
2008-08-20 01:27:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lesley via CatKB.com
Post by Adrian
Post by Kreisleriana
My all-time favorite dub: I was watching an old Burt Reynolds
comedy, which contained many instances of the word "f***ing." Each
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
Post by Adrian
If you strangle a Smurf, what colour does it go? ;-)
I don't know but would be more than willing to find out if I see a smurf!
Get in line or leave me the Teletubbies!
Lesley
Slave of the Fabulous Furballs
Can I have Barney? Please?

Pam S. who was so glad that her kids were too old for Barney or the
Teletubbies
Matthew
2008-08-20 02:14:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by tanadashoes
Post by Lesley via CatKB.com
Post by Adrian
Post by Kreisleriana
My all-time favorite dub: I was watching an old Burt Reynolds
comedy, which contained many instances of the word "f***ing." Each
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
Post by Adrian
If you strangle a Smurf, what colour does it go? ;-)
I don't know but would be more than willing to find out if I see a smurf!
Get in line or leave me the Teletubbies!
Lesley
Slave of the Fabulous Furballs
Can I have Barney? Please?
Pam S. who was so glad that her kids were too old for Barney or the
Teletubbies
TELETUBBIES ARE THE DEVIL SPAWN REBORN
THE CREATOR OF BARNEY SHOULD BE HANGED
tanadashoes
2008-08-20 02:49:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matthew
TELETUBBIES ARE THE DEVIL SPAWN REBORN
THE CREATOR OF BARNEY SHOULD BE HANGED
YES!!! I worship at the altar of Barney decapitated. Teletubbies too.

Pam S.
outsider
2008-08-20 14:15:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by tanadashoes
Post by Matthew
TELETUBBIES ARE THE DEVIL SPAWN REBORN
THE CREATOR OF BARNEY SHOULD BE HANGED
YES!!! I worship at the altar of Barney decapitated. Teletubbies too.
Pam S.
Ha! I once had a rubber barney figure with it's head detached! It was a
prized possesion.

I also hate that xp desktop that looks like telletubbie land
Lesley via CatKB.com
2008-08-20 14:23:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by tanadashoes
Can I have Barney? Please?
Certainly and that's the "Death to rubbish children's TV characters" squad
sorted out!

Lesley

Slave of the Fabulous Furballs
--
Message posted via CatKB.com
http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/cat-anecdotes/200808/1
Adrian
2008-08-20 15:51:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lesley via CatKB.com
Post by tanadashoes
Can I have Barney? Please?
Certainly and that's the "Death to rubbish children's TV characters"
squad sorted out!
Lesley
Slave of the Fabulous Furballs
So long as Andy Pandy's safe. ;o)
--
Adrian (Owned by Snoopy, Bagheera & Shadow)
Cats leave pawprints on your heart
http://community.webshots.com/user/clowderuk
Jofirey
2008-08-15 20:54:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kreisleriana
Post by b***@sonic.net
Post by Smokie Darling (Annie)
There is nothing worse than watching a film, seeing a guy trying
to get away from a predator (on SciFi it's usually some sort of
monstrosity like a giant alligator or shark), and saying "shoot"
over and over. Got news for you, SciFi re-runs enough stuff, and
I've seen most of their films elsewhere, and "shoot" is *not*
what that guy is saying as he steers the boat to get away.
LOL! :) Yeah, there is something incredibly lame about hearing a
Mafia guy on some gangster movie going, "Forget you!" 50 million
times. :)
My all-time favorite dub: I was watching an old Burt Reynolds
comedy, which contained many instances of the word "f***ing." Each
instance was changed to "Viking"!! I laughed my ass off , but
wondered if viewers of Scandinavian descent would get insulted to
hear their ancestors used as a swear word. ;) It also caused me to
remember this and snort every time afterwards, when I hear anyone
refer to Vikings. Like the Minnesota Vikings, for example. Or
"Give him a Viking funeral." ;)
One of my pet peeves. I'm deaf and follow the captioning on TV. But
I can still hear a bit with my implant and I'm pretty good at lip
reading.

Often a swear work will be included in the audio programming, but they
will delete it from the closed captioning.

It isn't that I have a need to read swear words, but I find that so
incredibly condescending.

Jo
hopitus
2008-08-15 21:12:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jofirey
Post by Kreisleriana
Post by b***@sonic.net
Post by Smokie Darling (Annie)
There is nothing worse than watching a film, seeing a guy trying
to get away from a predator (on SciFi it's usually some sort of
monstrosity like a giant alligator or shark), and saying "shoot"
over and over. Got news for you, SciFi re-runs enough stuff, and
I've seen most of their films elsewhere, and "shoot" is *not*
what that guy is saying as he steers the boat to get away.
LOL! :) Yeah, there is something incredibly lame about hearing a
Mafia guy on some gangster movie going, "Forget you!" 50 million
times. :)
My all-time favorite dub: I was watching an old Burt Reynolds
comedy, which contained many instances of the word "f***ing." Each
instance was changed to "Viking"!! I laughed my ass off , but
wondered if viewers of Scandinavian descent would get insulted to
hear their ancestors used as a swear word. ;) It also caused me to
remember this and snort every time afterwards, when I hear anyone
refer to Vikings. Like the Minnesota Vikings, for example. Or
"Give him a Viking funeral." ;)
One of my pet peeves. I'm deaf and follow the captioning on TV. But
I can still hear a bit with my implant and I'm pretty good at lip
reading.
Often a swear work will be included in the audio programming, but they
will delete it from the closed captioning.
It isn't that I have a need to read swear words, but I find that so
incredibly condescending.
Jo
You know I wouldn't take that personally, Jo...even though you do have
a point that its strange....what I think is that like that saying,
"the pen is
mightier than the sword.." meaning in this case: an obscenity of audio
transmission might well be missed by viewing audience unless it was a
one-liner curse - but in white subtitles onscreen may lead to audience
complaints to the station as "in-your-face" fodder for indignation.
Just my opinion...what to *you* think?
b***@sonic.net
2008-08-18 22:16:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jofirey
One of my pet peeves. I'm deaf and follow the captioning on TV. But
I can still hear a bit with my implant and I'm pretty good at lip
reading.
Often a swear work will be included in the audio programming, but they
will delete it from the closed captioning.
It isn't that I have a need to read swear words, but I find that so
incredibly condescending.
The whole thing is condescending. I don't like being treated like a
delicate child.

Sometimes, a lot of swearing is how real people talk, and if you want a
film or show to have any verisimilitude at all, you have to write a
script where characters say things you'd hear people say in real life,
or it just sounds ridiculous.

By the way, I've seen the opposite from what you describe, Jo. The spoken
word will be dubbed or bleeped, but the caption will have the real word.
--
Joyce ^..^

(To email me, remove the X's from my user name.)
Jofirey
2008-08-19 04:57:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@sonic.net
Post by Jofirey
One of my pet peeves. I'm deaf and follow the captioning on TV.
But
I can still hear a bit with my implant and I'm pretty good at lip
reading.
Often a swear work will be included in the audio programming, but they
will delete it from the closed captioning.
It isn't that I have a need to read swear words, but I find that so
incredibly condescending.
The whole thing is condescending. I don't like being treated like a
delicate child.
Sometimes, a lot of swearing is how real people talk, and if you want a
film or show to have any verisimilitude at all, you have to write a
script where characters say things you'd hear people say in real life,
or it just sounds ridiculous.
By the way, I've seen the opposite from what you describe, Jo. The spoken
word will be dubbed or bleeped, but the caption will have the real word.
Somehow I find that reassuring. And its something I wouldn't notice.

I feel like I can hear the television when I'm wearing my processor,
but really I can't understand a great deal of it unless I have the
captions as well. If I were to read a word, I would 'think' I'd heard
it as well.

Jo
tanadashoes
2008-08-14 00:17:54 UTC
Permalink
"Smokie Darling (Annie)" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:06670bd7-52dd-4e5a-91fb-***@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

There is nothing worse than watching a film, seeing a guy trying to
get away from a predator (on SciFi it's usually some sort of
monstrosity like a giant alligator or shark), and saying "shoot" over
and over. Got news for you, SciFi re-runs enough stuff, and I've seen
most of their films elsewhere, and "shoot" is *not* what that guy is
saying as he steers the boat to get away.

Although the digitizing out the breasts on the Venus on the half shell
(yeah, that isn't what it's called, but that's what I've always called
that painting) on History Channel, and doing the same on a painting in
a Poirot seems to be the worst. Didn't realize that a work by a
master (the Venus on the half shell) was considered inappropriate for
children, yet watching a person get torn limb from limb (in some piece
of crap film, usually on SciFi, lol) is perfectly acceptable.

Heck, there was a show on PBS (yes I do suffer through them
occasionally), where they had a tribe from the Amazon forest, and they
digitized the butts and the breasts. Since we have to be ashamed of
the human form, regardless. ARGH!

Sorry, off the high horse now.
=================================

WOW!!! I think your PC ninnies are worse than my PC ninnies. The ones here
in town want to plop an art museum that looks like some one is giving the
town the finger into the middle of an open space park meant for "Festivals"
and public gatherings. They claim that the foot print of the builing will
only take up 3000 sq feet, but that doesn't count the "car port" overhang,
landscaping, parking lot, and so on and so forth. If you incllude all of
the space they actually want, the citizens of the town will lose half of
their park. The wine and cheese weinies believe they are doing it for our
own good and that we owe them this. Sheesh.

But at least they never covered up the breasts of Venus on the Half Shell
(it is one of the alternate names for that painting IIRC) or digitalized the
buts and breasts of humans on nature shows. Please don't give the wine and
cheese weinies any ideas by writing them.

Pam S.
hopitus
2008-08-14 01:40:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Smokie Darling (Annie)
There is nothing worse than watching a film, seeing a guy trying to
get away from a predator (on SciFi it's usually some sort of
monstrosity like a giant alligator or shark), and saying "shoot" over
and over.  Got news for you, SciFi re-runs enough stuff, and I've seen
most of their films elsewhere, and "shoot" is *not* what that guy is
saying as he steers the boat to get away.
Although the digitizing out the breasts on the Venus on the half shell
(yeah, that isn't what it's called, but that's what I've always called
that painting) on History Channel, and doing the same on a painting in
a Poirot seems to be the worst.  Didn't realize that a work by a
master (the Venus on the half shell) was considered inappropriate for
children, yet watching a person get torn limb from limb (in some piece
of crap film, usually on SciFi, lol) is perfectly acceptable.
Heck, there was a show on PBS (yes I do suffer through them
occasionally), where they had a tribe from the Amazon forest, and they
digitized the butts and the breasts.  Since we have to be ashamed of
the human form, regardless.  ARGH!
Sorry, off the high horse now.
=================================
WOW!!!  I think your PC ninnies are worse than my PC ninnies.  The ones here
in town want to plop an art museum that looks like some one is giving the
town the finger into the middle of an open space park meant for "Festivals"
and public gatherings.  They claim that the foot print of the builing will
only take up 3000 sq feet, but that doesn't count the "car port" overhang,
landscaping, parking lot, and so on and so forth.  If you incllude all of
the space they actually want, the citizens of the town will lose half of
their park.  The wine and cheese weinies believe they are doing it for our
own good and that we owe them this.  Sheesh.
But at least they never covered up the breasts of Venus on the Half Shell
(it is one of the alternate names for that painting IIRC) or digitalized the
buts and breasts of humans on nature shows.  Please don't give the wine and
cheese weinies any ideas by writing them.
Pam S.
Evidently there is a ton more going on on the PBS channel than I ever
get a look
at. Once in awhile I watch some antique valuation program on it,
thoroughly enjoy
both the US and UK versions, as it gives you a chance to see if
anything your
family handed down to you is worth anything, whether you like the
stuff or not.
Old furniture and paintings leave me cold but am amazed at how much
some of
them turn out to be worth on these antique valuation shows.
All the body parts I see on my fave tv series are on "dead" bodies on
morgue slabs
being autopsied....to each thier own.
Smokie Darling (Annie)
2008-08-14 13:52:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Smokie Darling (Annie)
There is nothing worse than watching a film, seeing a guy trying to
get away from a predator (on SciFi it's usually some sort of
monstrosity like a giant alligator or shark), and saying "shoot" over
and over.  Got news for you, SciFi re-runs enough stuff, and I've seen
most of their films elsewhere, and "shoot" is *not* what that guy is
saying as he steers the boat to get away.
Although the digitizing out the breasts on the Venus on the half shell
(yeah, that isn't what it's called, but that's what I've always called
that painting) on History Channel, and doing the same on a painting in
a Poirot seems to be the worst.  Didn't realize that a work by a
master (the Venus on the half shell) was considered inappropriate for
children, yet watching a person get torn limb from limb (in some piece
of crap film, usually on SciFi, lol) is perfectly acceptable.
Heck, there was a show on PBS (yes I do suffer through them
occasionally), where they had a tribe from the Amazon forest, and they
digitized the butts and the breasts.  Since we have to be ashamed of
the human form, regardless.  ARGH!
Sorry, off the high horse now.
=================================
WOW!!!  I think your PC ninnies are worse than my PC ninnies.  The ones here
in town want to plop an art museum that looks like some one is giving the
town the finger into the middle of an open space park meant for "Festivals"
and public gatherings.  They claim that the foot print of the builing will
only take up 3000 sq feet, but that doesn't count the "car port" overhang,
landscaping, parking lot, and so on and so forth.  If you incllude all of
the space they actually want, the citizens of the town will lose half of
their park.  The wine and cheese weinies believe they are doing it for our
own good and that we owe them this.  Sheesh.
But at least they never covered up the breasts of Venus on the Half Shell
(it is one of the alternate names for that painting IIRC) or digitalized the
buts and breasts of humans on nature shows.  Please don't give the wine and
cheese weinies any ideas by writing them.
Pam S.
Sweetheart, I'd never dream of it. It's rather like the "wine
festival" here (in the small town I live in). The tickets are priced
so that *no* locals would feel comfortable going. It isn't a public
event, but they use the only public park in the town, and if you
happen to walk by and look in, there is some big security guy telling
you to move along. I always tell him, well, if you can give my
wheelchair a push, as I normally go into the park this time of day,
and I can't get around all the Lexus', Mercedes, and BMWs double and
triple parked (because apparently the really rich don't know how to
walk any distance) so close I can't even turn my own chair around.
b***@sonic.net
2008-08-14 23:12:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by tanadashoes
But at least they never covered up the breasts of Venus on the Half Shell
(it is one of the alternate names for that painting IIRC) or digitalized the
buts and breasts of humans on nature shows. Please don't give the wine and
cheese weinies any ideas by writing them.
But you've got it all wrong. It's not the "wine and cheese weenies" who
get bent out of shape about breasts, butts and swearwords. That'd be the
job of Bible thumpers and puritannical types. Don't forget John Ashcroft -
not a wine and cheese weenie.

Whereas the wine and cheese weenies were the ones who wanted to put a
statue of a murderous conquistador up in the center of El Paso, Texas,
despite protests from local Native descendants of survivors of the
massacre. (I posted about this recently). Gotta know which type of weenie
goes with which stupid idea. :)
--
Joyce ^..^

(To email me, remove the X's from my user name.)
Kyla =^..^=`
2008-08-14 21:44:17 UTC
Permalink
"Smokie Darling (Annie)">
Post by b***@sonic.net
Where's here? I don't remember where you live. I'm thinking somewhere
in the southern US, or south/midwest?
--
Joyce ^..^
(To email me, remove the X's from my user name.)
Western Colorado, near Grand Junction (that's the biggest town on this
side of the Rockies, and easiest to find on a map). It seems that we
have become somewhat of a conservative town, but we have gay rights
<go figure>, one of the few places in Colorado to openly accept gay
Post by b***@sonic.net
and lesbian couples in most neighborhoods.
I used to live in Denver and my late Dad's widow lives in Grand Junction.
I haven't been back to Colorado since 1980. Moved from there to Seattle 32
years ago, Seattle's pretty tolerant of gay and lesbian couples also:)
Hug
Kyla
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